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Tim
20 Comments
I didn't touch on this in the video, but the criticism that the game continuously attempts to make us feel bad for things we did not choose is one that somewhat misses the mark for me personally, because I don't believe it's trying to do that. The game was never really our story. It was Ellie's story. A game does not need to be about the player; we can be the outside participants watching it unfold — and that's okay. Gameplay endeavours to give us a sense of agency and alignment with the characters, but that does not make it our story. Gameplay is not synonymous with making all the decisions in a game, and it severely limits the types of stories we can tell to insist so. When compared to the first game — we never choose for Joel to go save Ellie from the hospital, to kill all those people, but I think the reason that didn't receive so much backlash was that, on some level, the players agreed with Joel emotionally. We wanted him to do it; in that sense, the agency did not matter, but it was still Joel's story more than our own.
Even so, players do have a sense of ownership over characters that other mediums do not have, so this line is going to be crossed more often, and I think it's important to understand that for those going after the people who don't like the game. That it comes from a place of love more than hate.
~ Tim
I just played The Last of us part 2 remastered, having just recently playing The Last of us (the ps5 remastered). I, like you, knew nothing, avoided all spoilers (except I watched the show, which is why I wanted to play the game). I avoided all spoilers, even after all these years, knowing I would eventually get to them
I was not ready for the Joel death scene. Like Ellie, I thought he was gonna find a way out of it somehow, because he's a badass. His death really reminded me of Glen's death at the hands of Negan in The Walking Dead
Honestly i think the biggest problem with part II is that most people, even hardcore gamers, don't see games as an art form first and foremost, but rather purely as entertainment (and there's nothing wrong with that). At the end of the day your appreciation and enjoyment is highly based on how you view it beforehand and how you choose to engage with it. Art is in equal parts a work of the artist and a reflection of the beholder.
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I agree that the game is absolutely trying to make you feel something unique and challenging in terms of exploring the cycle of vengeance and healing. It also feels like the game is trying to have its cake and eat it to, too. The writers might be trying to make the audience question the necessity of violence, but the game designers give you magic pills that make killing easier? It's the incongruence between the narrative and the game design that I feel makes the narrative in turn seem disingenuous. There is some magic in the story, but I feel like it's undercut by the how the game demands you to be violent in order to progress.
I'm sorry but Joel becoming more trusting after living in Jackson does not work for me.
1. Joel was a survivalist right from the start of the infection. Remember that family he drove past to look out for Sarah and Tommy? Back when he was still just a loving dad protecting his own?
2. Joel has been surviving in the apocolypse for over 20 years. That learned behavior and muscle memory doesn't just go away. Joel might be a bit more trusting, but not enough to give out his own name, and certainly not enough to blindly follow some girl they just met to her group. He'd sus it out because he's dealt with stuff like this before. Look back at the raider who pretended to be hurt for example.
A more realistic approach would be if he and Tommy argued over it. If Joel was sus of Abby from the start, but was told by his brother "well its either we follow her, or we freeze Joel."
Joel would have drawn his gun tge moment he suspected they knew him and Tommy. You could still have him jumped and killed, here but it would have felt more in line with the Joel we know.
I always wondered why people were so angry about the story in this game. Turns out it’s because it’s a Bojack Horseman episode…
I've watched dozens of TLou critiques at this point… This is by far my favourite
just watched this years after playing the game and i loved it. Loved the game and i loved the video. 🙂
Swing in a miss. The story isn't "vindicated" by hateful comments. The source of their vitriol is frustration at a game developer that does not respect its audience, not some ham fisted attempt at a character redemption arc.
Last of Us Part II came out the year I lost my mother, and previous traumas were roiling too close to the surface. I am both glad and disappointed I never got to experience this.
I think your statements about factionalism, healing and not healing from trauma, and the cycle of violence are things more people need to hear.
"when Ellie cant get out of this us vs them mentality" you mean loyalty? that thing thats most important when being tested? loyalty comes above all else doesnt mater who is right or wrong you protect your own
I love listening to you.
I appreciate that you discussed the formatting. I couldn’t articulate why the narrative chose to do this
The story doesnt work bc in such a narrative heavy game… actions and motivations have to make sense. So many of the beahviors exhibited from characters in the game make no sense. It is an immersion breaking and outright story ruining decision to have these two characheter rack up 1000 kills between them just to take turns sparing each others lives back and forth. It makes NO SENSE.